[trungduong] Go Vote!

Nam_Nguyen at Dell.com Nam_Nguyen at Dell.com
Thu Oct 28 15:36:04 CDT 2004 

"A survey of deaths in Iraqi households estimates that as many as
100,000 more people may have died throughout the country in the 18
months after the U.S. invasion than would be expected based on the death
rate before the war."
"Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and
children,"
" However, after the invasion, violence was recorded as the primary
cause of death and was mainly attributed to coalition forces - with
about 95 percent of those deaths caused by bombs or fire from helicopter
gunships."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=6&u=/ap/20041028/a
p_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_death_toll_4

If we could provide those being killed and their relatives a choice:
live under dictatorship or die under a self-governed government, what
would they chose?

Nam 

-----Original Message-----
From: All-bounces at trungduong.org [mailto:All-bounces at trungduong.org] On
Behalf Of Anh Le Arsenault
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:59 PM
To: Just chat
Subject: Re: [trungduong] Go Vote!

> >Reagan and Bush were Presidents during Soviet occupation in1980s
through
> >1991.
> _ So they did the right thing: helping Mujahideen people to kick the
Soviet
> out of their country.

Those Mujahideens were Bin Laden and his followers. They got a lot of
weapons and money from the U.S govt during 1980s.

> >Doesn't that mean Bush Senior abandoned Afghans already after Soviet
out
in
> >1988?
> _ Not yet. In 1992 they started an interim gov overthere. The Senior
Bush
> administration had an unfinished business interupted by Clinton.

What did Bush Sr. do between 1988 and 1992 of his term for Afghanistan
again?

> >Yes, Clinton did try to get Bin Laden through CIA, of course, not
war,
and
> >he failed.
> _ As I said before: couples of Tomahawks was a joke to B. Laden
>
> >W Bush actually had more opportunity to do so through war with the
Taliban,
> >but he also failed because he turned to Iraq.
> _ I don't know why you see B. Laden not captured or killed is failure
of
the
> war in Apghanistan. The US wiped out Taliban, a savage government used
the
> canon to shoot a big statue of Budha. Now the election is completed
> successfully. Moreover, US now is just one of the countries and UN to
> rebuild the Apghanistan.

Of course Taliban was bad, so as a bunch of other dictators in the world
including Sadam Hussein. The Bush Admin tried to convince people that
they
are going after immidiate threats to America. Who is immidiate threat
between Bin Laden and Sadam? They said then Bin Laden was "on the run"
or
"not that concerned about". Listen more closely lately these days, you
will
not hear that term "Bin Laden on the run" as much as before.
Hmmm...talking
about consistency...


> Bin Laden and his leutenants are running or
> captured or killed. His camps no longer exists.

If US govt. doesn't know where Bin Laden is right now, how do they know
if
he is not building new terrorist camps ??

>Now Iraq is closed to
> self-governing. The business is almost finished but not yet.
>
Ah. With the on going violence and kidnappings ?

> Thought to remind the Berlin Wall were torn down while Ronald Reagan
was
in
> the office.

He was among "good presidents".

---pa
>
>
>
> >From: Anh Le Arsenault <anhple at earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: Just chat <All at trungduong.org>
> >To: Just chat <All at trungduong.org>
> >Subject: Re: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:46:13 -0400
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Victor Thang Do" <tddo at hotmail.com>
> >To: <All at trungduong.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:05 PM
> >Subject: Re: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> >
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > "Then U.S abandoned Afghanistan, let Taliban come in power and,
> > > of course, support Bin Laden and his followers. Look at who were
U.S
> > > presidents then?  Ronald Reagan 2 terms, then George Bush Senior."
> > > _ The time frame is incorrect and look who was the US president at
that
> > > time.
> >
> >Reagan and Bush were Presidents during Soviet occupation in1980s
through
> >1991.
> >
> > > * In late 1992, Kabul was captured and an alliance of mujahideen
set
up
> >a
> > > new government with Burhanuddin Rabbani as interim president. Who
was
> >the
> > > president of the US at that time? Bush senior lost the election to
the
> > > Clinton.
> >
> >Doesn't that mean Bush Senior abandoned Afghans already after Soviet
out
in
> >1988?
> >The country was not stable at all then.
> >
> > > * Civil wars between war lords tore down the country of
Apghanistan.
Who
> >was
> > > the president of the US at that time? Clinton.
> > > * In the late 1996 the Taliban movement rose up in Kandahar at
took
the
> > > Kabul in 1998. Who was the president of the US at that time?
Clinton.
> > > * The Taliban harbored the Al qaeda and let them build terrorist
camps
> >with
> > > training facilities, airports, money collections from 1996 to
2001.
Who
> >was
> > > the president of the US at that time? Clinton.
> >
> >Yes, Clinton did try to get Bin Laden through CIA, of course, not
war,
and
> >he failed.
> >W Bush actually had more opportunity to do so through war with the
Taliban,
> >but he also failed because he turned to Iraq.
> >
> > > Clinton had 2 terms to solve the terrorism issue, but he didn't.
> >Instead,
> >he
> > > let them grown. Now he backed flip-flop Kerry to follow his trail
to
go
> >back
> > > to pre-9/11 times.
> > >
> >
> >---pa
> >
> > > Thang
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Anh Le Arsenault <anhple at earthlink.net>
> > > >Reply-To: Just chat <All at trungduong.org>
> > > >To: Just chat <All at trungduong.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:11:50 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Hello, I'm back!
> > > >I thought we either stopped or moved to TrungDuong Forum?
> > > >Admit it ! We're glued to this now ;-)
> > > >Well, I will copy this thread to the Forum some time. Good
information
> >to
> > > >keep, don't you think?
> > > >
> > > >Yesterday, I had to leave work early to rush Jamie to
Pediatrician
> >because
> > > >he was misserable with his second teething. Upper teeth are
coming
up.
> >Then
> > > >we watched RedSox game and eclipse at night. And we were
overjoyed
with
> >the
> > > >Boston team's victory.
> > > >
> > > >"He / Demo left a big mess in security for Bush administration.
9/11
> >was
> > > >the
> > > >effect of the cause from him not from Bush."
> > > >
> > > >Because Bin Laden and Afghanistan were mentioned previously, I
thought
> >a
> > > >bit
> > > >of background should be pointed out. Through the 1980s,
Afghanistan
was
> > > >invaded and occupied by Soviet Union. U.S policy was that "NO" to
> >Soviet
> > > >control of Mid-East. So they funded the Afghan- then called
"Freedom
> > > >Fighters" - now called "terrorists". During that situation, Bin
Laden
> > > >joined
> > > >those fighters and became their leader. Why fund them? to kick
out
> >Soviet
> > > >troops. The same way with Chinese supporting North Vietnam
communists
> >to
> > > >kick out Americans in the South. Then Soviet was really kicked
out
from
> > > >Afgahnistan. Then U.S abandoned Afghanistan, let Taliban come in
power
> >and,
> > > >of course, support Bin Laden and his followers. Look at who were
U.S
> > > >presidents then?  Ronald Reagan 2 terms, then George Bush Senior.
Then
> > > >Clinton came. He tried to get Bin Laden but he failed. So did
W.Bush
in
> > > >this
> > > >term.
> > > >Both parties have contributed good presidents and "less than
good"
> >ones.
> > > >That's why I registered as "Independent" and will stay that way.
Just
> >to
> > > >have as much objective look at the candidates as possible. For
> >Democracy,
> > > >it's required to have more than one party in power.
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, enjoy your freedom to vote.
> > > >Gooday,
> > > >--pa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Nam Nguyen" <nam_nguyen67 at hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <All at trungduong.org>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:02 PM
> > > >Subject: RE: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Thang,
> > > > >
> > > > > " The policy and strategy of an administration is more
important,
> >not
> >a
> > > > > person."
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, why people made a big fuss over Clinton and his personal
life?
> > > >Why
> > > > > wasted tons of tax-payers' money trying to impeach him?  They
said
> >it
> > > >was
> > > > > perjury, but why did they put him under oath about his
personal
life
> >in
> > > >the
> > > > > first place?  It sure looked like a setup to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > You mentioned Clinton is a state-of-the-art liar.  I do not
recall
> >he
> > > >lied
> > > > > about national security matters.  Do you?  He did not
exaggerate
> >reasons
> > > >to
> > > > > go to war in Bosnia.  No CIA covert agent's name was leaked
under
> >his
> > > >watch.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think personal character also plays a very important factor.
> >People
> > > >can
> > > > > fake their character, but not under fire or extreme condition.
What
> >did
> > > > > Bush do on the day this nation was attacked, besides reading
"My
Pet
> > > >Goat"?
> > > > > Cheney had to give an order to shoot down an airplane.  Did
anyone
> > > >explain
> > > > > why Bush flew around like a duck to Louisiana and then Omaha?
I
> > > >understand
> > > > > why the commander-in-chief has to be protected but why didn't
he
> >just
> >go
> > > >to
> > > > > an undisclosed location and direct the nation from there.  I
just
> >cannot
> > > > > imagine how he can handle a more urgent event.  If you forget
his
> >face
> > > >at
> > > > > that time, try Farenheit 9/11.  I was really scared watching
our
war
> > > > > president.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nam
> > > > >
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From: All-bounces at trungduong.org
> >[mailto:All-bounces at trungduong.org]
> >On
> > > > > >Behalf Of Victor Thang Do
> > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:00 PM
> > > > > >To: All at trungduong.org
> > > > > >Subject: RE: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Vu, the script is very interesting. That's why I said the
look of
> > > > > >American
> > > > > >history about VN war sometimes dead wrong. Even Bush also has
a
> >wrong
> > > > > >view.
> > > > > >Or may be he did not tell the truth about American friends
dumped
> >their
> > > > > >allies / South Vietnam (what a shame!). Somehow he got a
supporting
> > > > > >voice
> > > > > >for VN-American, better than killing the hope as Kerry. The
policy
> >and
> > > > > >strategy of an administration is more important, not a
person.
> > > > > >Internet Cafe? Interesting idea, Vu. It's not going to work
for
me
> > > >since
> > > > > >it
> > > > > >looks like you travel by watching the video or dvd. I can
wait
> >another
> > > > > >10
> > > > > >yrs to get you a real cup of coffee, Vu. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Ngo, Vu (NIH/NCI)" <ngovu at mail.nih.gov>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: Just chat <All at trungduong.org>
> > > > > > >To: 'Just chat' <All at trungduong.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: RE: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:13:58 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Binh,
> > > > > > >The information wasn't intended for changing anyone's
decision.
> >It
> > > > > >only
> > > > > > >shows one can always find something bad about both
candidates
but
> >the
> > > > > >big
> > > > > > >picture will not change.  If they are both bad, I don't
want to
> > > >choose
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > >worse.
> > > > > > >Thang,
> > > > > > >Let me know when your favorite cafe goes online, then we
can
> >enjoy
> > > >some
> > > > > > >virtual caffeine without having to wait another 10 years.
What
> > > >happens
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > >the internet smell invention that you can actually smell
your
> > > >favorite
> > > > > > >flavor on your screen.  IPO did not take off? Those
internet
> >cafes
> > > >can
> > > > > >take
> > > > > > >advantage of this invention.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > > From: Binh Truong
> > > > > > > > Reply To: Just chat
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:54 PM
> > > > > > > > To: Just chat
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <<File: ATT1098600.txt>>
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Vu for that information, though it didn't make
much
> > > > > >difference
> > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > > my decision.  Chances are Bush probably can't even find
> >Vietnam
> >on
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > map, much less understand the complexity of that
conflict.
> >But
> > > > > >don't
> > > > > > > > blame him for not knowing: he was grounded from flying
in
N'l
> >Air
> > > > > >Guard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Binh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Ngo, Vu (NIH/NCI)
> > > > > > > > To: 'Just chat'
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [trungduong] Go Vote!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > Before you all leave the topic and head to the poll,
there
is
> >a
> > > > > > > > message that
> > > > > > > > I got from a friend intended for those who are pro-Bush.
I
> >have
> > > > > > > > said that
> > > > > > > > Fox news is the well known biased media toward
conservative
> > > > > > > > pro-republican
> > > > > > > > idealism so I take to the face value that it never
intends
to
> > > > > >work
> > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > Bush in the following interview:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [B] What Pres. Bush Thinks of Vietnamese.  What An
INSULT!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >        On the Sept. 27 edition of the O'Reilly Factor, a
Fox
> > > > > >News
> > > > > > > > Channel show, the following conversation between Pres.
Bush
> > > > > > > > and O'Reilly occurred:
> > > > > > > >     O'REILLY:  The South Vietnamese didn't fight for
their
> > > > > >freedom,
> > > > > > > >                which is why they don't have it today.
> > > > > > > >     BUSH:  Yes.
> > > > > > > >     O'REILLY:  Do you think the Iraqis are going to
fight
for
> > > > > >their
> > > > > > > >                freedom?
> > > > > > > >     BUSH:  Absolutely.                  Read the
transcript:
> > > > > > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133712,00.html .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >         The Vietnamese American is the only AsAm group
that
> > > > > > > > still favors Pres. Bush to Kerry.  Look, however, what
Bush
> > > > > >thinks
> > > > > > > > of Vietnamese.  Politicians often ABUSE their MOST LOYAL
> > > > > >supporters
> > > > > > > > who are POLITICALLY NAIVE.  Here is one example of this
kind
> >of
> > > > > > > > abuse!  What an INSULT!   Pass this email to your
Vietnamese
> > > > > > > > friends.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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